man from below; that, however, to which the heart of man ascends, is above as regards man. Even so, my brothers, one can say that if it ascended into the heart of John, if one can say that in any way at all, then it rose up into the heart of John insofar as John himself was not a man. What does this mean, he was not a man? To the extent that he began to be an angel. For all holy men are angels because they are the messengers of God.9 (2) What, then, does the Apostle say to the carnal and the natural